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Moggy & Mordechai, a Debate on the Holocaust

Part 2:

(A conversation between a Gentile, and a Jew)

Based on David Cole’s Zyklon-B Questions, numbers 1 through 6        Click HERE

Moggy:  “Mordechai, I have been reading up some more on the Six Million. And the Zyklon-B issue.”

Mordechai:  “I am very pleased, Moggy. So you should.”

Moggy: “in our previous conversation, you expressed no concern at something that totally alarms me. Namely that the known ‘clothes de-lousing chambers’ left a TON of Zyklon-B residue, and associated blue staining, and the alleged ‘homicidal gas chambers’ left virtually NONE.
To quote David Cole: “when we factor in the Zyklon B traces still existing in the camp barracks and offices, we see that infrequent gassings will still leave SOME traces. Thus, we have the traces in the camp offices and barracks, which reveal what levels of traces would remain, fifty years after the fact, in rooms which were gassed infrequently.”
Now, Mordechai, listen up: Surely to goodness the trace levels of Zyklon-B in the alleged ‘homicidal gas chambers’ (Krema 1, 2 and 3), where allegedly hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews were gassed around-the-clock, SHOULD be WAY the HELL HIGHER than the trace levels left in the BARRACKS and OFFICES. Surely?? But here is the KICKER. They are NOT any higher. Suggesting, I submit, that the Revisionists are damn and right when they say THAT suggests (even ‘proves’, FFS) that, as David Cole says, “the traces which DO exist in Kremas 1, 2 and 3 come from the same fumigation routine that all the other buildings went through?”
In other words, the barracks and the offices??? Trying to kill damn LICE and not damn JEWS??”

Mordechai:  Moggy. You need to listen to me. I have already explained this to you.

Moggy:  Well, explain it again, then.

Mordechai:  The passage of Time. This is 2021. After 80 years, you cannot expect these chemical traces to have survived. All these allegations are long since discredited and silly.

Moggy:  Discredited?? A lot of this testing goes back to the nineties. They took samples. They literally chipped small pieces out of the walls of the alleged ‘homicidal gas chambers’. Then they sent those samples to top notch laboratories. What’s ‘alleged’ about it?

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Last edited by Francis Meyrick on March 28, 2021, 11:36 am

Main Index – Click HERE

Moggy & Mordechai, a Debate on the Holocaust

Part 1:

(A conversation between a Gentile, and a Jew)

Based on David Cole’s Zyklon-B Questions, numbers 1 through 6        Click HERE

Moggy:   “Mordechai, I have been reading up on the Six Million. And the Zyklon-B issue. ”

Mordechai:   “I am very pleased, Moggy. So you should. ”

Moggy: “And I have decided you Holocaust guys are full of sh*t. ”

Mordechai:  (sighs patiently) (smiles sweetly) “Why is that, Moggy? ”

Moggy:   “Because the walls in the alleged homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz show only minute traces of Zyklon B and no blue staining. So they were never used as ‘homicidal gas chambers’. It’s all a pack of Jew lies. End of story. ”

Mordechai:    “Who told you that, Moggy? ”

Moggy:   “David Cole and others, took physical samples, and had them chemically tested in laboratories. The results are well attested to, and beyond dispute. ”

Mordechai:    “You have those laboratory results? ”

Moggy:   “Yes. Right here. Would you like to see them? ”

Mordechai:   “Later, maybe. But you do know those results have already been challenged, right?’

Moggy:   “If you mean by the Polish Institute, yes, I know that. And THEIR refutation has ALSO been refuted. ”

Mordechai:    “Let’s move on. ”

Moggy:  (mischievously)   “I thought you might. ”

Mordechai:   “There is a real simple explanation for what you describe. ”

Moggy:    “Let’s hear it. ”

Mordechai:   “Weathering. This is 2021. Eighty years later. Of course the passage of time, wind and rain will erase such evidence. ”

Moggy:   “Then how come the de-lousing chambers, where they de-loused the clothes, to PROTECT the prisoners, show heavy Zyklon B blue stains on the INSIDE, but also on the OUTSIDE walls, as well. How come THAT evidence was not also erased, by ‘the passage of time, wind and rain’…?? ”

Mordechai:  (smiling) “Oh, that’s also easy to explain! ”

Moggy:    “Try me! ”

Mordechai:    “The de-lousing chambers had to use a heavier concentration of Zyklon-B, to kill lice! ”

Moggy:   “You mean to tell me… you’re saying it takes a TON more Zyklon-B to kill LICE than it does to kill HUMANS? ”

Mordechai:   “Precisely! That explains everything! ”

Moggy:   “I think it is SO far-fetched, the truth is you’re just clutching at straws. Making it up as you go along.  I’d say it’s FAR more plausible that those ‘alleged homicidal gas chambers’ where the Nazis allegedly gassed hundreds of thousands or millions of Jews, were simply NOT ‘homicidal gas chambers’. And I’d say it’s a FAR more plausible explanation that the reason there is ‘only minute traces of Zyklon-B and no blue staining’ is that those rooms WERE in fact SHOWER ROOMS. ”

Mordechai:   “No, no. They were homicidal gas rooms, and millions of poor Jews died there. ”

Moggy: So you’re saying you see no problem with known, accepted, ‘clothes de-lousing chambers’ leaving heavy Zyklon B blue stains on the INSIDE, but also on the OUTSIDE walls, as well, but ‘homicidal gas chambers’, where hundreds of thousands or even millions of Jews were supposedly gassed to death, leaving only minute traces of Zyklon B and no blue staining??

Mordechai:  No, no problem at all. That neatly explains everything.

Moggy:   “That explains BARKING SQUAT, as far as I’m concerned. It seem stretching the imagination really, really far to believe that the clothes-delousing chambers would leave one set of chemical & physical trace results, and an alleged set of ‘homicidal gas chambers’ that were in business almost round the clock, non-stop, on a massive scale, amazingly, would leave an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT set of results:  to wit, NO SIGNIFICANT Zyklon-B chemical & physical trace results.

Mordechai:   “Well, that’s what happened, Moggy. ”

Moggy:   “You don’t think it’s WAY more plausible, WAY, WAY, WAY MORE, that those rooms WERE just SHOWER ROOMS?? ”

Mordechai:   “Oh, no, Moggy. Millions of poor Jews died there. ”

Moggy:   “Well, here’s another problem:  Lice. Lice were known to cause Typhus, sickness and death, right?”

Mordechai:   “Yes, Moggy. Those awful Nazis really neglected those poor Jews. ”

Moggy:  (choking)   “Excuse me! I think they actually spent a TON of money and effort trying to control the problem! WHY would they do that if it was just a DEATH CAMP anyway? An EXTERMINATION Lager? Doesn’t it sound a whole lot more plausible that it was simply a much needed LABOR CAMP?  For the massive WAR EFFORT?

Mordechai:   “No Moggy, you are sadly deluded. All they wanted to do is KILL everybody. ”

Moggy:   “But then why not let the bloody LICE do it….?? The killing? Oh, never mind.
I need a stiff drink. Your logic is driving me nuts.

Mordechai:   “I am truly sorry, Moggy. ”

(to be continued)

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Last edited by Francis Meyrick on March 28, 2021, 11:35 am

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David Cole  Unanswered Questions 7-14   Physical evidence at the Auschwitz-Birkenau Concentration Camp (Poland)

(http://vho.org/GB/c/DC/gc46-ORIGI.html)

Quote:

(7) Why was the area between Kremas 2 and 3, the area where thousands of people were marched daily to their deaths, left completely unfenced? The ditches which run the length of the camp perimeter would make a person invisible both to ground fire AND fire from the guard tower. Why would the Nazis risk an attempted escape, especially considering the fact that many inmates were gassed after they had been in the camp for a while, and knew what their fate would be if marched into either of those buildings? Doesn’t the Auschwitz State Museum claim that the inmates would often “riot” as they were being marched toward Kremas 2 and 3?

(8) Why were Kremas 2 and 3 not hidden in any way from the view of the inmates? Isn’t it claimed at the Auschwitz State Museum that gassings were stopped at Krema 1 (Auschwitz Main Camp) and moved to Birkenau because the inmates were starting to get an idea of the homicidal purpose of Krema 1? Why then were Kremas 2 and 3 put in plain sight of all sectors of the Birkenau camp, with no camouflage of any kind? Wouldn’t this just create hundreds of thousands of “eyewitnesses”, with everyone in the camp becoming well aware of the exterminations (and with many of these inmates later transferred to other camps in other parts of Europe to “spread the word” about the gassing program)? How could this profit the Nazis?

(9) It is claimed that there were four holes on the roofs of Kremas 2 and 3, which served as Zyklon B induction holes. The best piece of evidence that these holes ever existed is found in the U.S. aerial photos taken of Auschwitz during the war. Is there any discrepancy between the size of these holes as depicted in the U.S. aerial photos, and the size of the holes as depicted on the model of the Krema 2 gas chamber (on display at the Auschwitz State Museum and the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum), the size as theorized by Jean-Claude Pressac in his book “Auschwitz; Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers”, the size as depicted in the movie “Triumph of the Spirit” (which recreated a gassing at Krema 2), and the size as described over the decades by eyewitnesses? Indeed, can it be said that the holes as depicted in the aerial photos are ridiculously large…larger than what would have been needed for pouring in a can of Zyklon B gas?

(10) Why are the four holes not present today in the roof slab of Krema 2? The roof slab, though collapsed, is intact and both the top and underside of the roof are still visible. There are two crudely chiseled holes at opposite ends of the roof slab (one is more like a huge crack than a hole), but the other two holes are non existent, and the underside of the roof, with the two-by-fours lining the ceiling still visible, shows no sign of two holes having ever been present. There are also no traces of the two holes on the top of the roof. How can the absence of the two holes, and any traces of the two holes, be explained?

(11) What circumstances would produce the Krema 2 roof slab as we now see it, with two holes visible and the other two non-existent? If the Nazis attempted to erase the traces of the roof holes, why did they stop after two? Why would they expend much effort to erase all traces of two of the roof holes, then not make any effort to erase the two which survived the demolition?

(12) Could the still existing roof holes have been added after the liberation, by the Soviets or Poles? Doesn’t Pressac admit that these two holes don’t correspond with the positions of the holes in the aerial photos (Pressac says that this might be because the roof “shifted” during demolition, but even if the roof “shifted”, that wouldn’t account for why these holes, which were supposed to run in a straight line down the middle of the roof, have changed their positions, and are no longer in a straight line down the middle of the intact roof slab)? These holes are in incredibly bad condition; their edges are consistently rough, with not an inch of smoothness left. And they are no longer circular. They look like someone took a jack-hammer and roughly hammered through the roof slab. It is explained by Auschwitz State Museum officials that the demolition of the roof is what accounts for the awful condition of the holes (that is, they USED to be round and smooth until the demolition).
But if one observes the wreckage of the “undressing room” roof slab, which was similarly destroyed and is now in even worse shape than the gas chamber roof slab, one sees the remains of the undressing room front ventilation hole, which is still round and smooth even after the demolition and fifty years of laying around as rubble. Why did the undressing room roof hole survive intact, while the two still existing gas chamber roof holes emerged from the demolition without even the slightest trace that they had once been round and smooth? If we consider that the two still existing gas chamber roof holes don’t correspond with their supposed position on the roof, can we theorize that MAYBE these two holes were chiseled in after the liberation? It is now admitted by the Auschwitz State Museum that the Soviets, after liberation, drilled four “Zyklon B induction holes” in the roof of Krema 1 (Auschwitz Main Camp). One needn’t assume bad faith on the part of the Soviets (they might have honestly believed that they were “restoring” the roof to the state in which it had once been), but this act clearly establishes that the Soviets DID in fact drill post-liberation “Zyklon B induction holes” in roofs that, at that time, had none. Is it possible that this accounts for the two sloppy “Zyklon B induction holes” in the roof slab of the Krema 2?

(13) It is said that the Nazis destroyed Kremas 2 and 3 in order to hide the proofs of their gas chambers. But what “proof” of gassings would have been provided by Krema 2 if Krema 2 had not been dynamited? There are no heavy Zyklon B traces or blue stains on the walls, and great care was obviously taken to remove even the slightest trace of two of the Zyklon B induction holes. The Krema 2 gas chamber would have resembled an ordinary morgue. Was the destruction of Krema 2 an attempt to hide the evidence of a gas chamber, or simply the destruction of a cremation facility in the face of the advancing Soviets? Were cremation facilities at other camps, camps that were never claimed to have gas chambers, also destroyed?

(14) If one is to believe that four Zyklon B induction holes were at one time in the roof slab of Krema 2, it must be assumed that the Nazis went through great pains to meticulously hide any traces of at least two of those holes. Yet we are told that when the Soviets, after liberation, “reopened” the Zyklon B induction holes in the Krema 1 gas chamber state (at the time of liberation, it was being used as an air-raid shelter), they know exactly where to “reopen” the four holes because the traces where these holes had been were STILL VISIBLE. The idea that the Zyklon B induction hole traces were still visible is supported by the Auschwitz State Museum officials, and by author Jean-Claude Pressac. Why didn’t the Nazis attempt to “cover-up” THOSE holes, especially keeping in mind that the Krema 1 gas chamber had been abandoned as a gas chamber AT LEAST a year before liberation, giving the Nazis more than enough time to erase the traces.
The Nazis were apparently able to do an incredibly good job of erasing the hole traces in the Krema 2 roof, even though time was short (the Nazis knew the Soviets were advancing, and they were busy making preparations to abandon the camp), yet we are told that they did NOT attempt to likewise cover up the hole traces in the Krema 1 roof slab, even though they had at least a year to do so. Why would the Nazis do such a fastidiously good job of hiding the existence of Zyklon B induction holes in a roof that they were then going to dynamite (Krema 2), yet allow the hole traces to remain in a roof that was left intact for the advancing Soviets (Krema 1)? Isn’t that backwards?

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Last edited by Francis Meyrick on March 28, 2021, 11:33 am

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David Cole – Questions 1-6   The Zyklon-B Issue               (http://vho.org/GB/c/DC/gc46-ORIGI.html)

Quote:

AT THE FORMER concentration camps of Auschwitz and Auschwitz-Birkenau, we find the following scenario:
The buildings which used to serve as the camp delousing facilities still have extremely high traces of the gas Zyklon B, which was used in these buildings to disinfest clothing, mattresses, etc.
Also, there is heavy blue staining on the walls both inside the delousing chambers, INSIDE the hallways between the delousing chambers, and OUTSIDE the building, on the EXTERIOR WALLS of the delousing facilities.

However, the interiors of the Krema 1 (alleged- Ed) gas chamber (Auschwitz Main Camp) and the Krema 2 and 3 (alleged -Ed) gas chambers (Auschwitz-Birkenau), where hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are said to have been gassed, show only minute traces of Zyklon B and no blue staining.

Also, the Auschwitz camp barracks and offices, which were fumigated with the Zyklon B from time to time, show similarly minute traces of the gas, and no blue staining.

QUESTIONS

(1) What explanation can there be for the low levels of traces, and absence of blue staining, in the (alleged – Ed) homicidal gas chambers?

(2) If one suggests that the Zyklon traces in the homicidal gas chambers have been “weathered away”, how can one explain the traces and staining on the OUTSIDE of the delousing complexes…traces which have NOT been weathered away after fifty years?

(3) It has been suggested that the amount of Zyklon B needed to kill people, even cumulative millions of people, would not leave traces as strong as the amount needed to kill lice in the delousing chambers. But when we factor in the Zyklon B traces still existing in the camp barracks and offices, we see that infrequent gassings will still leave SOME traces. Thus, we have the traces in the camp offices and barracks, which reveal what levels of traces would remain, fifty years after the fact, in rooms which were gassed infrequently.

Then we have the delousing chambers, which reveal what levels of traces would remain, fifty years after the fact, in rooms which were gassed frequently. Can it not be expected that the levels of traces in the homicidal gas chambers, while perhaps not being as high as those in the delousing rooms, would AT LEAST be substantially higher than the traces in the buildings which were only fumigated infrequently? Yet the traces in Kremas 1, 2 and 3 are not markedly higher than the office and barracks traces. Does this not suggest that the traces which DO exist in Kremas 1, 2 and 3 come from the same fumigation routine that all the other buildings went through?

(4) Once one has fashioned an explanation for the minute traces and no blue staining in Kremas 1, 2 and 3 at Auschwitz, how does one THEN explain the HIGH levels of Zyklon B traces and DEEP, FLOOR-TO-CEILING blue staining in three of the four Majdanek (alleged – Ed) gas chambers? Far fewer people are said to have been killed at Majdanek than at Auschwitz. The four Majdanek gas chambers would never have had to handle the (alleged – Ed) workload of Kremas 1,2 and 3. Yet whereas Kremas 1,2 and 3 have only minute traces and no blue staining, three of the four Majdanek gas chambers have heavy traces and deep blue staining. How could gassing a GREATER amount of people (at Auschwitz) leave minute traces and no blue staining, yet gassing a much SMALLER amount (at Majdanek) leave heavy traces and deep blue staining?

(5) The gas chambers at the Majdanek camp not only have heavy Zyklon B blue stains on the INSIDE, but also on the OUTSIDE walls, as well. What could account for this? The delousing facilities at Birkenau have heavy blue staining on their outside walls, staining which is said to come from the mattresses which were propped up against the outside walls and beaten after delousing (to rid them of Zyklon B residue). Do the heavy blue stains on the outside walls of the Majdanek gas chambers therefore suggest that these rooms were used as delousing facilities? Isn’t the building which contains the gas chambers labeled the “Bath and Disinfection” complex? If, as with Auschwitz, it is said that gassing people wouldn’t leave blue stains on the INSIDE walls of a homicidal gas chamber, how then, at Majdanek, could gassing people leave heavy blue stains not only on the INSIDE walls but also on the OUTSIDE ones as well?

(6) To sum up the Zyklon B issue, we can take an overview of the Nazi gas chambers and their respective states RE Zyklon B traces:

Krema 1 (Auschwitz Main Camp): Minute traces, no blue staining

Krema 2 (Auschwitz-Birkenau): Minute traces, no blue staining

Krema 3 (Auschwitz-Birkenau): Minute traces, no blue staining.

Majdanek gas chambers 1, 3 and 4: Heavy traces, heavy blue staining (on inside and outside walls).

Dachau gas chamber: No traces, no blue staining.

Mauthausen gas chamber: No traces, no blue staining.

The revisionist explanation for the above is:

Kremas 1, 2 and 3 were not used as gas chambers; — the only Zyklon B they saw was from the routine camp fumigations.

Majdanek rooms 1, 3 and 4 were delousing rooms, like the ones at Auschwitz-Birkenau.

The Dachau gas chamber was a shower.

The Mauthausen gas chamber was a shower

THE BIG QUESTION:

What theory can be offered which explains the wildly divergent states of the gas chambers re Zyklon B traces, while still supporting the concept of (alleged – Ed) mass homicidal gassings at these camps?

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Last edited by Francis Meyrick on March 28, 2021, 11:32 am